The knack of it

Fencing:
Attack
Defense
Entangle
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Knives:
Attack
Defense
Throw
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Heavy Weapons:
Attack
Defense
Ready
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Pole Arms:
Attack
Defense
Hold
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Hand Weapons:
Attack
Defense
Throw
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Firearms:
Attack
Defense
Reload
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Crossbow:
Attack
Defense
Reload
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Archery:
Attack
Defense
Reload
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Shield:
Attack
Defense
Bash
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Cloak:
Attack
Defense
Entangle
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)



Whip:
Attack
Defense
Hold
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Panzerhand:
Attack
Defense
Entangle
BASH
UPPERCUT

Improvised:
Attack
Defense
Throw
ANYTHING HANDY
PEOPLE

Brawling:
Attack
Defense
Entangle
(NATION)
(ACADEMY)

Barber:
Surgery
Presentation
Gossip
APOTHECARY
DOCTOR

Farmer:
Animals
Labor
Logistics
IRRIGATION
AGRICULTURE

Sailor:
Sailing
Survival
Ropework
GUNNERY
SABOTAGE

Minister:
Research
Oratory
Philosophy
HISTORY
OCCULT

Herder:
Animals
Travel
Land Navigation
RIDER
RANGER

Craftsman:
Craft
Fashion
Design
JURY RIG
REPURPOSE



Miller:
Labor
Repair
Logistics
CARPENTRY
CONSTRUCTION

Wildsman:
Survival
Travel
Land Navigation
HUNTER
TRAPPER

Smith:
Design
Repair
Craft
JOINER
MACHINIST

Soldier:
Survival
Labor
Impede
FENCE
SERGEANT

Thief:
Stealth
Prestidigitation
Appraise
BURGLARY
CAPER

Servant:
Gossip
Prestidigitation
Unobtrusive
(APPRENTICE)
(JOURNEYMAN)

Entertainer:
Influence
Presentation
Fashion
SHOWMANSHIP
STAGE

Writer:
Presentation
Design
Research
CALLIGRAPHY
BIBLIOSCRIPT

Acrobat:
Balance
Leap
Swinging
DIVING
TUMBLING

Alchemist:
Appraise
Research
Craft
CHEMIST
BLOOD ALCHEMIST



Merchant:
Negotiate
Appraise
Logistics
ADVERTISING
NETWORKING

Athlete:
Running
Climbing
Swimming
DEFENSE
FREERUNNING

Guard:
Perception
Impede
Gossip
SCAN
GUARD PORTAL

Ship’s Navigator:
Sailing
Sea Navigation
Perception
CARTOGRAPHY
BLIND NAVIGATION

Official:
Negotiation
Oratory
Appraise
COMMAND
ADMINISTRATION

Courtier:
Negotiation
Gossip
Fashion
ETIQUITTE
PEDIGREE

Sea Dog:
Sailing
Impede
Unobtrusive
BURGLARY
GUNNERY

Speaker:
Oratory
Presentation
Influence
INCITATION
CAPTIVATION

Explorer:
Philosophy
Survival
Prestidigitation
DIGGER
FIELD RESEARCH

Spy:
Stealth
Influence
Perception
GOSSIP
IMPERSONATION



Valet:
Stealth
Impede
Unobtrusive
LOGISTICS
COLD READ

Jenny:
Presentation
Influence
Appraise
SEDUCTION
INFATUATION


Oratory-Choose 3 basic
Brawn -Incitation
Finesse -Conference
Resolve -Public Defense
Wits -Mass Manipulation
Panache-Rousing Speech

Training- Choose 3 basic
Brawn -Physical
Finesse -Fine works
Resolve -Endurance
Wits -Literary
Panache-Artistic

Sincerity- Choose 3 basic
Brawn -Intimidation
Finesse -what they want to hear
Resolve -Backing your words
Wits -Aspects of truth
Panache-adding a flourish

Disguise- Choose 3 basic
Brawn -be the focus of attention
Finesse -unobtrusive
Resolve -passive
Wits -Forgery
Panache-acting

Socializing- Choose 3 basic
Brawn -Taking over a conversation
Finesse -changing the subject
Resolve -staying on point
Wits -Defending your point
Panache-Adding pizzazz

Negotiation - Choose 3 basic
Brawn -Enforcement
Finesse -mutual negotiation
Resolve -playing ‘hardball’
Wits -scheming
Panache-using popular opinion

Etiquette- Choose 3 basic
Brawn -Barbaric society
Finesse -High society
Resolve -Stern society
Wits -Deadly Society
Panache-Passionate society

I want to get the knacks of other skills to be purchasable after the initial purchase (as mentioned before my last post) but I am going to develop the system by which one can do that before presenting it fully.

Repartee stays the same, but the civil skills have changed a bit. Due to a large number of exceptions in role-play I have refined a basic set of skills and knacks to better contain the flexibility of the system. The intent is to allow freedom of trait+knack synergy, but to also give value to the background knowledge and expertise of different characters in a party.

Without further adieu:
Blades:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Knives:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Heavy Weapons:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Pole Arms:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Hand Weapons:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Firearms:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Crossbow:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Archery:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Shield:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Cloak:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Whip:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Panzerhand:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Wrestling:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Brawling:
Attack
Defense
Ready

Barber:
Surgery
Presentation
Gossip

Farmer:
Animals
Labor
Logistics

Sailor:
Sailing
Survival
Repair

Minister:
Research
Oratory
Philosophy

Rider:
Animals
Travel
Navigation

Craftsman:
Craft
Fashion
Design

Miller:
Labor
Repair
Logistics

Woodsman:
Survival
Travel
Navigation

Smith:
Design
Repair
Craft

Soldier:
Survival
Labor
Impede

Thief:
Stealth
Prestidigitation
Appraise

Servant:
Gossip
Prestidigitation
Unobtrusive

Entertainer:
Influence
Presentation
Fashion

Writer:
Presentation
Design
Research

Veterenarian:
Surgery
Animals
Travel

Alchemist:
Appraise
Research
Craft

Merchant:
Negotiate
Appraise
Logistics

Surgeon:
Surgery
Philosophy
Research

Guard:
Perception
Impede
Gossip

Navigator:
Sailing
Navigation
Perception

Official:
Negotiation
Oratory
Appraise

Courtier:
Negotiation
Gossip
Fashion

Pirate:
Sailing
Impede
Unobtrusive

Speaker:
Oratory
Presentation
Influence

Explorer:
Philosophy
Survival
Prestidigitation

Spy:
Stealth
Influence
Perception

Valet:
Stealth
Impede
Unobtrusive

Jenny:
Presentation
Influence
Appraise

Advanced Knacks (when you have two skills that align to create a new occupation, you may purchase the following advanced knacks):

TBA next post.
The basic idea is that when you meet the Skill requirements, you gain access to advanced knacks that represent a new skill that has prerequisites contained within other skills. Examples would include : Entertainer+Speaker=Actor, Miller+Woodsman=Lumberjack, Barber+Alchemist=Apothecary.

I find this excellent! Alright, let me see if I can't address the blending point, at least to get the ball rolling.

If we're using a single pool, rather than the HP/XP split, I don't see that we have to do a whole lot else. For repartee, what about assigning enemies a Static TN for repartee for heroes to beat, perhaps something like 5+(5x wits). That would allow the "threat" level of NPCs to have impact outside of blades-and-chandeliers combat. Active defense could be represented by opposed rolls for Villains, other heroes (rarely), and particularly sharp henchmen who might realize they're being had, using the same skill as the hero (justified by the adage of sending a thief to catch a thief) and defaulting to Wits.

Thoughts?

Diana DiFalisci wrote:Oh, I like this. Is the working idea that the skills you don't pick up in the initial repartee buy (7 instead of 2 now) are all available as advanced knacks?

Correct!

Oh, I like this. Is the working idea that the skills you don't pick up in the initial repartee buy (7 instead of 2 now) are all available as advanced knacks?

Post your thoughts on the new knack lists and let me know whats missing. Also you'll notice that there are three skills that allow flexibility on the name of the skill itself and three repartee skills with restricted knacks. What ideas do you have about blending the two systems into one (more elegant) skill set that a new player will be able to navigate?

Acquiring a new skill-

Choose the skill type from the following list…
Profession (Name of a profession)
Production (Name of a skill that creates or aids in creation of something)
Personal (physical and motivational in nature)
Oratory and Negotiation
Sincerity and Obfuscation
Etiquette and Socializing

Then choose three knack listed in the skill's category to be your basic knacks. Other knacks can be purchased after character creation.

Profession
Navigation
Diagnosis
Surgery
Sailor
Jenny
Fortune Telling
Senechal
Pilot
Servant
Logistics
Strategy
Tactics
Mathematics
Design
Accounting
Fashion
Investigation

Personal
Theology
Hand Signs 
Stealth 
Balance
Footwork
Rolling
Swinging
Leaping
Contortion
Running
Juggling
Climbing
Shifting
Swimming
Lifting
Labor
Research

production
Natural Philosophy
Poison
Writing
Smithing
Carpenter
Art (thing)
Pharmacy
Animal Handling
Tailoring
Cooking
Fishing
Farming
Mason
Potter
Printer
Vintner
Invention

Oratory and Negotiation
Brawn -Incitation
Finesse -Conference
Resolve -Public Defense
Wits -Mass Manipulation
Panache-Rousing Speech
Brawn -Enforcement
Finesse -mutual negotiation
Resolve -playing ‘hardball’
Wits -scheming 
Panache-using popular opinion to sway 

Sincerity and Obfuscation
Brawn -Intimidation
Finesse -motivation
Resolve -command
Wits -misdirection
Panache-seduction
Brawn -be the focus of attention
Finesse -unobtrusive
Resolve -passive
Wits -Forgery
Panache-acting

Etiquette and Socializing
Brawn -Barbaric society
Finesse -High society
Resolve -Stern society
Wits -Deadly Society
Panache-Passionate society
Brawn -Taking over a conversation
Finesse -changing the subject
Resolve -staying on point
Wits -Defending your point
Panache-Adding pizzazz to the subject

Didnt think it was critical just stating something in hopes of it being less murky. We are all here to throw spagetti at the fridge and see if it will stick or fall before the dog eats it I figured. All the ideas here rock I think. And remember the only thing that rocks more is bigger rocks or bolders.

Oh, my post wasn't meant to be a criticism. I really like the system up for our perusal, and I think the trait-based repartee to be a pile of awesome.

[quote="Diana DiFalisci"] e.g., "I want to be an acrobat,, so I choose balance, rope work, and performance (acrobatics)."

First of all I dont really post on forums too much so i may have Eff'd up that quoting. If I did sorry madam DD. In general tehre will be break downs under each skill just so you dont have the hunter that levels up hunting to get the edge with his artilary knack. There is the idea that the knacks are things you can do with a skill that you level insted of the knacks there in.

With the tailoring of skills you can make them do more of what you want within the bounds of the skill. and should reperesent the regions they came from e.g. ussarian diplomat uses diplomacy to practice high level bartering of lands and people thuss taking ettiquite bartering and oratory, vs a vendel who uses diplomat in a similar way but for favors insted of tangable resources taking accounting theology and ettiquite ( because why do you actually need money if you can make people in the right places think they owe you what you want any way)
The big list in splayed out format i think looked a little daunting but that is why it is here to recive polish not to look purdy.

side note I just noticed that I cant spell check this so ya'll must-a live with me dyslexic butt spelling things how i think they should be spelled.

Dr Adventure wrote:

Diana DiFalisci wrote:Am I wrong in noting that these all seem to be mostly basic knacks as of the first edition, excepting a few like poison? If this is the case, when you say that an additional two can be acquired as advanced knacks in the future, do you mean two from this list or will there be another forthcoming at some indeterminate date in the future?

The list of knacks is a first draft of knacks that I believe should survive. There are plenty missing; most of which are simply better versions of basic knacks, or were completely redundant ex(Stealth, ambush, waylay), or (sincerity, intimidation, seduction, bluff, quack) I have found that these can easily be role-played, not requiring game mechanics to allow the character who would use them to be successful.

That stated, I would recommend using only the list of knacks provided. I am hoping to refine, add, or subtract as needed to form an efficient list of appropriate knacks that cover the breadth of the setting.

These can usually be roleplayed, but to pull from games I've seen in the store, there are always the players that just aren't as competent as their characters. The players may be new to the setting, or they may not be most comfortable with social interactions in real life. Think about "Kitty" back when he and his twin brother used to play in your Oracle game, or a certain shy young man that now GM's for me on Wednesday, but didn't used to have the social skills to get by readily in the store.

For that matter, I still remember your Burning Sands campaign where one player, having the skills to deal with court, got to tell you in broad strokes what he wanted to say. A second player- having some skill in court, but without the polish of the first- had to tell you in finer detail what he wanted to say, and if he got to touchy points the person he was speaking with was a little nettled by it. The third, with no courtly skills... "You are live NOW: anything you say comes out of your character's mouth."

Without a social skill set that includes things like intimidate, seduction, bluff, it's hard to get those moments.

That's my 5c (inflation, ya know. <gryn>)

I'm really just the organizational brain. Admittedly, my portion of the creative process isn't even close to starting as of yet. My job isn't necessarily to understand how the demented minds on this forum work, just to make sure that they do... I'll figure it out once we start play testing mechanics and whatnot. Otherwise, I'm just waiting for the Castille, Montaigne, and Vodacce timeline updates.

The way I'm reading it (Admittedly, I know no more than you do, possibly less considering my location), it seems like its even more fluid than having several options for each skill. I'm seeing them as completely user defined from the full list of knacks, e.g., "I want to be an acrobat,, so I choose balance, rope work, and performance (acrobatics)." If I were being completely honest, I'd have to concede that I'm really only basing this on the fact that there's only a master list of skills rather than subdivisions for skills.

How you phrased, madam, seems to be how the repartee skills are working, in that you see five but only pick three.

So, to be clear, replace the current, defined skill/knack list with a more fluid skill/knack relationship in which the player has several choices of knack for each skill according to their character type, rather than the full list of knacks which may never be used? Just trying to figure out if I'm on the same page...

I note that the commander skills seem to be absent. I would inquire about, if I may, adding perhaps logistics (For running things like armies in the field) and Command, for directing large bodies of troops, workers, bloodthirsty pirates, etc. I understand that oratory can be used to make orders and the like, but I wonder if a skill to know what the right orders are would be useful.

Yeah, I can see where ambush and waylay are really just extensions of stealth. Re: seduction, though, I understand that it is worlds away better than, say, Jenny. But Jenny is being a prostitute, while seduction is necessarily larger. I can see not wanting it in its present form (I know that I abused it early and often), but I'm not seeing a replacement for it that doesn't make the art of seduction very, very hard. You could use any number of repartees or speech knacks for the physical words, but unless you're actually a Jenny, having the Jenny skill to represent the nonverbal cues and sex appeal would be inappropriate, and I don't see a different way to get those. Perhaps narrowing it down to just those nonverbal expressions would work? Or slipping it into a repartee somewhere?

Please, if you've a different take, hit me with it! I'm just trying to understand.

Edit: The commander and logistics skills I ask about now would be civil rather than martial, despite possibly being relevant to battle. The Mass Combat that Vitali and I are working on evolving shouldn't require it.

Diana DiFalisci wrote:Am I wrong in noting that these all seem to be mostly basic knacks as of the first edition, excepting a few like poison? If this is the case, when you say that an additional two can be acquired as advanced knacks in the future, do you mean two from this list or will there be another forthcoming at some indeterminate date in the future?

The list of knacks is a first draft of knacks that I believe should survive. There are plenty missing; most of which are simply better versions of basic knacks, or were completely redundant ex(Stealth, ambush, waylay), or (sincerity, intimidation, seduction, bluff, quack) I have found that these can easily be role-played, not requiring game mechanics to allow the character who would use them to be successful.

That stated, I would recommend using only the list of knacks provided. I am hoping to refine, add, or subtract as needed to form an efficient list of appropriate knacks that cover the breadth of the setting.

Am I wrong in noting that these all seem to be mostly basic knacks as of the first edition, excepting a few like poison? If this is the case, when you say that an additional two can be acquired as advanced knacks in the future, do you mean two from this list or will there be another forthcoming at some indeterminate date in the future?

Acquiring a new skill-

Choose the skill type from the following list…
Profession (Name of a profession)
Production (Name of a job that creates or aids in creation of something)
Obsession (should be related to a personality trait)
Personal (physical and motivational in nature)

Then Choose three of the following knacks to become the base knacks for the skill. (Over time two additional knacks can be acquired at the cost of advanced knacks per skill.):
Research
Natural Philosophy
Occult
Poison
Lore (a subject)
Appraisal
Mathematics
Navigation
Street Knowledge (Region)
Design
Labor
Writing
Performance (thing)
Smithing
Carpenter
Art (thing)
Technical Art (thing)
Diagnosis
Surgery
Sailor
Pharmacy
Fashion
Burglary
Theft
Animal Handling
Tailoring
Jenny
Fortune Telling
Cartography
Cooking
Fishing
Preserving
Survival
Hunting
Cobbler
Farming
Gardening
Jeweler
Mason
Potter
Printer
Vintner
Accounting
Senechal
Prestidigitation
Rope work
Pilot
Theology
Servant
Hand Signs
Stealth
Storytelling
Balance
Footwork
Rolling
Swinging
Lifting
Leaping
Contortion
Running
Juggling
Climbing
Shifting
Swimming
OTHER: by GM approval


OR…when acquiring a new skill gain a repartee instead,


Repartee: choose one, three of the five listed knacks(each is associated with a different trait) become the base knacks. A player maya aquire the remaining two knacks over time as advanced knacks.:

Oratory-
Brawn -Incitation
Finesse -Conference
Resolve -Public Defense
Wits -Mass Manipulation
Panache-Rousing Speech
Training
Brawn -Physical
Finesse -Fine works
Resolve -Endurance
Wits -Literary
Panache-Artistic
Sincerity
Brawn -Intimidation
Finesse -what they want to hear
Resolve -Backing your words
Wits -Aspects of truth
Panache-adding a flourish

Disguise
Brawn -be the focus of attention
Finesse -unobtrusive
Resolve -passive
Wits -Forgery
Panache-acting
Socializing
Brawn -Taking over a conversation
Finesse -changing the subject
Resolve -staying on point
Wits -Defending your point
Panache-Adding pizzazz to the subject

Negotiation
Brawn -Enforcement
Finesse -mutual negotiation
Resolve -playing ‘hardball’
Wits -scheming
Panache-using popular opinion to sway

Etiquette
Brawn -Barbaric society
Finesse -High society
Resolve -Stern society
Wits -Deadly Society
Panache-Passionate society


This list is for beta-testing purposes. It is my hope that we can put harder rules for skills together through our RP experience.

In addition to this logic, I aim to replace repartee with skill use (thus the repartee skills listed above)

Updating knacks here...

Martial Knacks appear as follows:
Blades
Knives
Heavy Weapons
Pole Arms
Hand Weapons
Firearms
Crossbow
Archery
Shield
Cloak
Whip
Panzerhand
Wrestling
Brawling(currently a combination of pugilism and dirty fighting)

Each has the following three base knacks:
Attack (finesse)
Defense (wits)
Ready (subtract your ready knack from the time it takes to ready the weapon)

Advanced knacks will be provided by the academy(nation) advantage and the swordsman school(s) chosen by the character.

Adding the ready stat to all weapons does the following:
If all basic weapons have a ready value of 1, when you receive the basic knacks at skill acquisition you have no penalty, however an unskilled user of the weapon has to spent an action to ready their blade. This mechanic also allows for zweihander and heavy weapons of unusual size to have more 'personality'. For brawling and wrestling, it represents getting into your stance for an attack or defense.